As many of you know, I’ve been experimenting with — and immensely enjoying — the Sony A7S.
The images from the CMOS sensor in the A7S come closest to the look I get with the CCD sensor(s) found in the Leica M8 and M9/M-E vs any other CMOS sensor camera I’ve tried to date (that list includes the Nikon D800E, the Leica M240, the Sony RX1R, the Nikon Df, and — whatever else I left out).
The CMOS-on-steroids A7S also allows me to photograph at amazingly high ISO levels. And does video too.
Frankly, the A7S is a fun camera to use.
On the other hand, the M8/M9/M-E cameras produce superior images at base ISO.
But Leica doesn’t appear to want to make any more CCD-based M cameras in the future, unless of course a million of you sign My Open Letter to Leica (by the way, only 999,660 signatures to go…). And the CCD Leica cameras are clunky and dated with respect to technology (they were dated, in fact, at the time of their introduction!).
Then again, Michael Jordan was considered over-the-hill when he returned to the NBA for the second half of his career, and look what he accomplished.
The point of all of this?
I’m a minimalist. Keeping things simple helps me produce better images.
I mentioned previously that I don’t function well juggling different camera platforms, as added variables (like differences in ergonomics, the way of “seeing” (through the viewfinder), menus, etc.) just get in the way.
Variables are the enemy. They are to avoided. They create convoluted paths between you and your images.
So of course, one of these camera platforms is destined to go.
But you already knew that.
—Peter.
Prosophos 
Peter,
I’ll be very surprised if the Leica goes. Well, not necessarily, actually. But if it does, I bet it’ll be back… shortly.
As long as you have fun… and keep making great pictures!
I would sign your Leica letter twice if I could.
Best,
M.
You know me well.
Peter – the answer is simple – if it is strictly a matter of maximum image quality and highest ISO – Sony – but if it is the photographic experience you desire – Leica. I fail to understand the continuing line of thought that if a camera is not the newest/highest resolution/max iso – it is not good. Taking that to its logical conclusion means every photograph taken with every camera made before 2010 is subpar and inadequate. I think not. The Leica M9 was one of the finest cameras in the world only a few years ago – it is good enough – you are good enough!
Thank you kindly. By way of clarification, I don’t subscribe to the view that “if a camera is not the newest… it is not good.” Of course the M9 and M8 are incredible image-creating devices.
I have both but could never choose just one as they have completely different strengths.
The Sony is nice, but it’s not a rangefinder and the lenses are not as good as Leica lenses. Also, the Sony works best with it’s own lenses…adapted lenses can be good but are not the best choice in my opinion. The Sony is however a great DSLR replacement.
Agreed. On all points.
Just my .02. I can’t afford a Leica, and haven’t had a chance to use one. But I do have the A7 with the Zeiss 55mm 1.8. It honestly is the best photographic experience I have ever had. Amazing images and love the look and feel of them. Maybe give the Zeiss a try? Keep up the great work.
Thanks Dave. I really do agree, that the Sony A7/R/S are phenomenal in what they can do. The M8 I own, by the way, was purchased used for literally 1/2 the price of a Sony A7S, so if you really want to try a rangefinder, it is possible. Just make sure you purchase from a reputable source.
Peter, your decision doesnt appear to be an easy one. Personally, i found the total shooting experience, the simplicity, and above all, the image quality of my m9p so wonderful and unique that i bought a second one with low iterations. Knowing that the ccd may be an irreplaceable part some day, i hoped that between the two i would be able to enjoy the experience for some years to come. Foolish choice/expenditure? Probably to many. But it meets virtually all my needs. And you obviously are thinking of yours as you decide. It’s your work and joy in making and sharing it that we treasure.
Henry, if you are foolish, then so am I. The reason I picked up the M8 to go alongside my M-E was to have that redundancy as well.
If you like the A7S I would stick with that. You like to capture images of your family. The A7S will give you more versatility.
It definitely gives me more versatility. Thank you Linden.
My guess is that your location may influence your decision the most as your winter and dwindeling light sets in, that amazing ISO ability of the A7s can’t be ignored.
How true that is. It’s always during this time of year that I start looking at other cameras.
M9/M-E = part of your family!
Better is the enemy of good!
Each man to his own!
Life is …like a…river!
Thanks Andreas.
given the current issue Leica has with the sensor corrosion, i would probably stick to the Sony. i have both, the A7 and the m240, i think they work well together.
For some reason, I’m not worried about the corrosion issue. I figure, at the very least, Leica will replace the sensor or offer a discount on the current model should that issue arise in my M-E.
On another note, despite my views on the M240, I must say it is a treat to use. Between that and the A7S, you have a great set-up.
Put the M cameras in a locked drawer. Give the key to your wife. Keep the A7s through the winter until early spring. It will give you a chance to forgive it for not being a rangefinder and for being different. You are already a human rangefinder and I expect will, by habit and nature, “see outside the frame” even without beamsplitters and frame lines. You will get beautiful images in the meantime and will be learning and having fun (all of which you have acknowledged as relevant to you). And the timing is important…..the scarce light of Toronto fall and winters and this time of year seems to dampen your spirits. The A7s’ handy high ISO and malleable sensor will help offset the darkness of these upcoming months and might reawaken some joy. Come spring time, if you want, sell the Sony A7s, ask for the key, and fire up the word processor to continue the Leica supplication and get out the vote process*. Not much is lost here. Maybe months away from the rangefinder cameras will help you know if you really want or need to return to them. If you never ask for the key, you can sell the M (or M’s) in the fullness of returning spring light with the knowledge that you are progressing and even happy without it. Maybe knowing they are in a drawer on spring stand-by will make it easier to try something unfamiliar. You know. Think of this decision as a pilot program rather than a lifetime contract. Also, who knows what the spring might bring? Maybe “Leica” will reply to your letter.
p.s. Keep the leica lenses…an almost universal seller’s remorse lesson learned only the expensive way….
Karen, thank you so much for your thoughtful and lengthy post (in fact, I everybody’s input has been fantastic).
You too are correct that the scarcity of light in this town at this time of year frustrates me.
And it really would be prudent to lock away the M8/M-E for the winter, but it’s difficult for me to have unused gear…especially pricey gear.
Agree with you on the lenses. I’ve made that mistake too many times.
You need to give yourself at least a year with the Sony before deciding.
You’re probably right, but it usually takes me less than a week, and most of the time I know within the very first few frames I shoot, because I can readily judge the image quality and ergonomics.
Wont it cost you lots of $$$ in depreciation to flip it so soon?
I am a M9P user myself and I enjoy this way of photographing a lot. Me too I preferred it over the M240 IQ-wise. On the other hand sometimes a higher IQ at ISO>640 would be very welcome (for low light or smaller aperture usage) and focussing in the dark I do not find that easy too with the M9.
I do not miss the autofocus that much but it basically means that I cannot easily hand over the camera to someone else in the family and get a quality shot.
One year ago we bought the A7 and the 55 mm lens, so my wife also has a camera and I am sometimes in the picture too. I do not care that much but in a way the photographer is a part of the family too…
She has a great eye and we got some nice pictures. Biggest drawback is the relatively loud shutter of the A7 and for me an EVF is not the same experience as a large optical viewfinder (even of a SLR).
Now I am considering changing it to the A7S so that it doubles as a M9 alternative at high ISO for those times I feel the need. Its silent shutter mode makes it a great creative tool. As much as the M9 is low profile, a completely silent body is a very attractive. I expect to get shots I would never get otherwise.
Me too I prefer the minimalist approach and two bodies is a bit much. I will not sell the M9, I would miss it and the experience/fun with it too much. I always try to stay within a stable global equipment budget (getting into Leica was already a big step for me). So I will probably let go of the lens I use the least (too bad that the A7S is so much more expensive than the A7).
Two bodies (M9 and A7s) and two lenses (35 and 50) is still quite minimalistic and I leave at home what I will not need.
The only thing I am doubting about is whether to sell my cron ASPH 35 mm for a summilux ASPH preFLE. I had the FLE but preferred the look and color rendering of the preFLE. On the A7S focus shift is no issue. I hope Ashwin Rao wrappes up his experience with the 35 mm lenses (preFLE, FLE) on the A7S soon.
Having a camera with higher ISO capabilities, one that can also be used by other family members, are two pieces of the puzzle that have previously been lacking in my gear, and the A7S easily addresses both.
The silent shutter function is amazing.
As for your lens issues, I can’t speak for all 35mm lenses, but I know my 35/1.4 FLE vignettes heavily on the A7S. It can fortunately be corrected during post-processing, but it is an issue.
Also when I was 5 or 6 years old my father let me use his Olympus OM1. I am still very grateful for that. I think that by learning to photograph you are also learning to see and that way take pleasure in things other people would walk by. My wife who wasn’t really into photography acknowledged that recently. I therefore really wanted her and my future kids to have also a powerful image making tool to their disposal.
Why don’t you put the Leica in storage until after winter is ended and make a decision then?
Thank you LD. Karen suggested that too — please see my response above.
Make an exception Peter….follow Lignum and Karen’s advice and lock the RF bodies away for a while. Even 6-8 weeks! Give the A7s a go.
But I’m pretty sure I know the outcome already so perhaps delaying the inevitable :-)!!
I’m going to have to “LOL” you on that one Andy 🙂
“… to abandon you,…, would be to leave a part of my self behind, and how can I do that when I do not know which part you are?”
Louise Gluck: “The Horse and Rider”
Hello Peter,
Why did you try the Sony? Is the answer of keeping it there to be found?
On the other hand why do you ask the question wich one to keep? Is the answer there to be found?
It looks to me like a decision between head and heart. That are the difficult ones 🙂
Truth is, no matter wich camera you’ll use, your picture will be great.
You asked an opinion, this is mine, I would use a camera that makes you smile.
Kind regards,
Mike
Peter,
I love your photos, but you have taken the wind out of my sail!
After a long tenure with a few DSLRs, then the X Pro1, I purchased an A7 + 55mm Zeiss for a great price last year. Image quality was great, but I just didn’t enjoy using the camera between the size, number of buttons, autofocus and placement and the EVF. Great camera, but it wasn’t for me.
I decided to put my toes in the water with an M8 over the summer. I love using the camera, but wish for more ISO and full frame.
Just yesterday, I ordered a demo M-E with a 2 year Leica warranty. I had a really hard time trying to decide between the M-E/M9 and the 240, but in the end price was a big factor to me.
I’m curious to see where you land and also how I like the M-E and continue to love seeing your new photo(s) daily.
Good luck!
John
John, don’t fret! Given your experience, I believe you made the right choice.
I re-looked your 2014 shots. For me, the best are taken with Leica M type 240, Leica M9/M-E, Mamiya 7II and Leica M3. Different sensors, rangefinder cameras…
I’d keep the m9 and try to add speedlight. You’d open a new world I’m sure.
I am anxiously waiting for a Sony a6000 to be delivered today. I’ve been shooting Canon DSLRs since 2006. Then tried some film again with Canon EOS 3. That led to a Voigtlander R3M and eventually added a Leica M8 too. Through this crazy GAS journey I learned a few things that are important to me. While I agree the CCD images from the M8 have a quality that cannot be matched by any other digital camera I’ve tried, I still felt too constrained by its limitations. My children are my most photographed subject. They do not tend to sit still and I find myself shooting in lower light situations too often. While using a Nikon SB-25 flash can work well with it, I like to shoot without flash and bump up ISO at times. So for me the less than stellar high ISO performance of the M8 and the higher price of an M9 or M-E put Leica out of contention. I want a camera that can autofocus on moving subjects too. And I want something smaller than a DSLR. I was convinced a Fuji was in my future until I watched a Gary Fong video where he demonstrated the focusing system on the a6000. I can’t wait to try the object tracking, registering my kids faces so in a group it will try to keep focus on them. And I ordered the adapter so I can try the Voigtlander 40mm f1.4 with focus peaking too. For me, getting the shot is more important than have the absolute best image quality. And having a smaller system will mean less likely that I’ll leave the camera at home. I don’t know if the A7S has the same AF options as the a6000, but if it does I suggest you try them out. You may find the versatility of the Sony trumps IQ. Although each person has their own hierarchy of what is important in a camera, so I wouldn’t be surprised if you said you value IQ more than all other factors and sell the Sony. I wish you the best whatever you choose.
Fantastic post. I really appreciate your comments.
I’ve made my decision, by the way.
I’m just going to push all my chips in here and say that you’re going to keep the Sony. Just a hunch… fortunately I’m not a betting man!!
Thank you James… and yes, refraining from gambling is a good idea 🙂
Hi Peter,
Would you not just use the M3 as your rangefinder camera and keep the A7s for the impressive low light capability? The A7s is great for all your M-mount lenses.
Cheers,
Pete