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As I scanned some of the other photography sites late this evening, and read several initial user reports on Sony‘s new A7 and A7R 35mm interchangeable cameras, I noticed more and more people are conceding that my prediction on September 15, 2012, on the eve of the release of the Leica M240 was true: the M9 and its CCD sensor would prove to be superior at base ISO than any CMOS offering.
Unfortunately, holding this opinion and stating it publicly — repeatedly — has probably strained my relationship with Leica. Hopefully they’ll eventually come around to seeing my efforts as constructive. I am, after all, an enthusiast who only photographs with Leica rangefinders and lenses.
Back to the point: is it any wonder that in June of this year I declared my camera of the year for 2013 to be the Leica M9? As crazy as it was for me to do, I’m sticking by it.
It’s still not too late to sign My Open Letter to Leica😉 .
—Peter.
Prosophos 
And I’m sticking with you Peter!
I’m with you too Peter. Don’t think you’re crazy.
I believe your intention — same as all those how have signed your letter like myself — is to reclaim the best possible. Opposite to just complain.
I’m with you too Peter. Even if I could afford the new M or extra couple grand to “play” with Sony A7/R I have no desire.
In the last couple days I’ve received the latest additions of Nespresso’s magazine and Bang and Olufsen’s. I own and use both of these companies products. They may not be the best in each of their fields but their simple but elegant designs remind me why I shoot with my CCD based Leica M-E.
Ah yes B&O! Love it! Wish I could get my hands on those Beolab 18s with the new wireless setup!
Peter, with your well-deserved following, Leica should be concerned about straining its reputation with you.
Thanks Jon, but I only have positive things to say about them. My opinion about CCD vs. CMOS is just that — an opinion; and, Leica gets so many things right so (as Luiz quite correctly points out), I’m not complaining… I’m just advocating.
36mp CCD M system would be great, while they can expand the S system to 56mp. One can only wish 🙂
I agree with you, but Iam wondering whether it will come back as it always does to money. Does any one know the comparison of M9 vs M240 sales in the same time frame. I hate to say it but if the CMOS M240 has out sold the CCD M9 there will be no going back which would be sad.
You’re correct Pi. But I can’t help thinking that, once Leica made the switch to CMOS sensors, they simultaneously (1) opened themselves up to inevitable comparisons with other CMOS sensors (witness the superiority of the current crop of Sony sensors) and (2) lost the distinction of being the only CCD sensor 35mm camera maker. But then, what do I know? It’s easy to second-guess, and I don’t pretend to know how to successfully run a large business (I am being sincere about this).
In some ways, I think they had to go the CMOS route, but I wish they had resisted a little more, or at least committed to providing future M models with updated CCD sensors (I realize that this may not be possible for a small camera company such as Leica, where resources are limited).
—Peter.
Even though I have an M240 I’d love a CCD Leica M as well!
i spoke to my friend, a pro photographer during my shooting this weekend. He who sold me his M9 and 50 Lux last in order to get himself the M240 with the APO summicron. He told me after a year of using the M240 that he deeply regrets selling his M9 and given the choice now, he would have never upgraded to the M240. He says he always has to tweak his raws a lot to get halfway near the ccd color. No suprise, he also misses his 50 ASPH LUX. I know for sure that i will keep mine for a very long time.
A bit of news from Australia…..I purchased a second MM body today from a local Leica dealer. I mentioned my plans to trade in next year for an ME (looking for warranty) and he said they are very very difficult to get. His feeling is that they are winding the CCD sensors down to keep for replacement and use in the MM.
I think my plans may be scuttled a little on that note! Not sure about buying an M9 without some form of support from the maker. All in all a bit sad and the begining of the end seems to be well underway….possibly!
On looking at some more images of the two current release in FF I actually prefer the Nikon D4 (and Df) sensor to the Sony. Would be at least a step in the right direction using this sensor over the one they have, or the Sony though as well for the current M. Just hoping there might be a couple of tweaks and changes for Photokina!
On another note the dealer had a Zeiss 25mm 2.8 on an a7r. Next to no vignetting. I then tried my Elmar (3.8) and also fine. At least on the LCD so perhaps there would be some if seen on the monitor, though he confirmed no. If anyone is out their looking for wide angle lenses for an a7, these may be options. That said the dealer did not really rate the sensor!! Resolution amazing, though too clinical but the big thing was he has found the sensor very inconsistent. He’s had purple fringing using a 50mm lux ASPH!!
More FYI if thinking about this camera.
I believe the strategy of long-term “investing in glass” may be tenuous, for precisely the reasons you cite. More and more, lenses are being developed in conjunction with camera sensors to optimize image quality. A lens that works well with one camera (and its sensor), therefore, may not perform as well with another camera (sensor).
On another note, Leica’s support for its camera bodies seems tenuous at best. This does not inspire confidence as a customer. As I mentioned previously, I haven’t seen an M-E available for purchase for ages, and many M9 bodies are in repair limbo as they await sensor changes (but CCD sensors seem to be in short supply).
Overall, the situation makes me want to re-examine Nikon’s offerings, but that would mean returning to DSLRs… something I am loathe to do.
Peter.
By the way, and in spite of what I wrote above, congratulations on the second MM Andrew.
Just bought some spare battries for MM.
130 M240’s on back order in Australia at the moment. Up to 160 day wait time (which seems short to me!). 30 ME’s on back order as well. a7/r sales now increasing with M240 cancellations coming into play, in Melbourne’s largest photography store….
Crazy stuff!
I’d be surprised if we see any more M-Es for a long time (if ever), as that CCD sensor is getting more difficult for Leica to procure. It doesn’t bode well for M9/M9P/ME/Monochrom owners who may need to have their sensors repaired.
Bye bye CCD…
For anybody reading this, care to sign my open letter to Leica?:
https://prosophos.com/2013/11/16/an-open-letter-to-leica/
I’ve now changed my mind as to what sensor I’d like to see, away from the current Sony batch….license the Nikon D4 (now Df) sensor from Nikon and put it into the M250….
Why:
1. The 16MP sensor I think will play better with some of the legacy lenses (well at least more consistently) than some of the resolution monsters….(i.e.the more resolution then the unknown of lens changes and performance comes into play)
2. The image produced is a better natural colour rendering than D800/e and a7/r (these are very good though more digital in my opinion!!)
3. It will bring the improved ISO performance expected and improve on the current M240
4. It will allow Nikon a chance to produce these in even more volume (I think this is a Nikon sensor…not Sony) and lower production costs on the Df….
5. Leica in the meantime could have the RF equivalent (even though they have this now it’s a much lower bar vs. the D4) of one of the best DSLR’s in the market with a legitimate output.
signed off
“A frustrated buyer who will be looking for a colour RF next year….preferably with some product some support” 🙂
The Df/D4 sensor is indeed made by Nikon (and not Sony). However, Andrew, at base ISO the M9/ME sensor is still superior 🙂
Having said all that, I wouldn’t mind what you’re proposing, if I couldn’t get a CCD sensor any longer.
All proposed based on the fact CCD won’t be an option!!
FYI….recent review on Df and Zeiss Otus by Kristian…..These images along with others I have been seeing are more natural and pleasing to my eye than the Sony sensors (personal choice and only talking sensor…not ergonomics) have lead me state the above re “My Sensor for the M250″…
http://kristiandowling.com/blog/2013/12/8/nikon-df-and-zeiss-otus-55mm-f14-apo-distagon-first-impressions-and-image-samples-part-2-the-lens
Hope this OK Peter. not entirely related to CCD and RF’s though more about sensor technology given that is the crux of the problem and assuming CCD is going…
Thanks Peter….my wife thinks I’m renting it :-)…which I am more of less doing!!
As for the topic, Leica are going to be in a tough spot if they do not get this sensor right. The whole RF and Leica experience could start to be brought undone by poor execution from Leica and more competition. Already people are talking about “focus peaking” like it is a replacement for the RF…. People true to using a RF will know and really appreciate the difference, though it just may not be enough people if that experience is not supported properly with image quality regardless of CMOS or CCD sensor. Putting in a proven Nikon, Sony or other CMOS sensor would go a long way to sure-ing up Leica followers.
My tip is they’ll will improve it over time. ……glass half full.